It seems you can’t check out your favorite gaming websites these past few days without hearing something about Beyond the Limitation and their 18 hour fight with Pandemonium Warden.
When the article was originally posted I figured it would hit a few linkshell forums here and there and then that would be the end of it. However since then it has been featured on Destructoid, Kotaku, The Escapist, Joystiq and was even mentioned on G4TV’s show X-Play! The article has also been translated into other languages. To date the article has received over 25,000 hits and the number is only going up.
I would like to take a few moments and mention some of the reactions that we’ve been seeing to this largely popular topic.
There seems to be a few different ways people are thinking about an 18 hour fight in an MMO so I’m going to break it down into a few groups.
1. It’s Square-Enix’s fault
People are asking themselves why a company in their right mind would knowingly add a monster into their game that takes a possible 18 hours to defeat. (They have stated that Absolute Virtue can in fact take 18 hours or 9-10 if you’re lucky). Is it possible that they don’t consider this after writing their small disclaimer that states they have “no desire to see your real life suffer”?
2. It’s the fault of the players
“Nobody is making you fight this” is a common phrase I have seen being posted in response to this story. The NMs in question are not preventing players from accessing any continuation of story line, they aren’t in the way of doing something else. They are simply at the end of a path of several other Notorious Monsters. If nobody wants to spend such a long time fighting a monster, simply don’t fight it.
Square-Enix is entitled to make their game challenging, its what the most hardcore players want. If you don’t want to get sick fighting NMs then make a shift schedule so people have time to duck out of the fight and get some sleep in and eat.
3. Pandemonium is still new, a strategy hasn’t been discovered yet
This is probably one of the most important things to note when reading the article. The NM that was faught was introduced in the last update and it’s very possible that a working stratagey has not been determined. Many people are questioning if the methods to beating Pandemonium Warden are even available in the game yet. One idea for example is to use the titles that represent the forms PW can turn into.
Possible Solutions
One of the suggestions that have come up is make it so that the NMs drop things as you fight it. Another idea was to make it so that after fighting a form of Pandemonium Warden you would get a pop item that would continue the fight later, giving you time to take a break.
I personally would take the ideas from both of these and flip them around. Make it so Jailer of Love drops an item to spawn Absolute Virtue and of course decrease the amount of time needed to defeat him. Next I would allow Pandemonium Warden the chance to drop something from its treasure pool after one of its forms is defeated.
If any of you have not shared your opinions or would like to continue to share your ideas please do so via comments or join our forum discussion.
What the hell is wrong with SE?
Of course it’s their fault.
Look, Many people started playing FFXI when it was first released for 1-2 hours a day. That’s all the time that was required to do most things back then.
But as you level up, get better and better, things start to require more and more time. Till you eventually end up needing 30,000 experience points to go from level 70 to 71. The amount of experience points you will get on average from defeating the right enemies will be anywhere from 90 to 230, depending on chain. It takes excellent players 30 seconds to kill an enemy within their leveling range, and ok players 1 minute. Average players require 2-3 minutes to kill one enemy within their level range. Do the Math! THAT IS ALOT OF TIME SPENT ON LEVELING UP!
So to say it’s the players fault, they have free will, and can choose not to fight it is totall bull ????. People have been playing this game for almost 6 years. they have social life built into the game. They are addicted on a mental and physical level. They become withdrawn when they are not playing because for the past 6 years they have done the same repetitive action day in and day out.
Do you think these people were sane for playing for 18 hour straight?
Do you think sane people willingly harm themselves, or make themselves sick?
IT’S AN ADDICTION! and SE needs to be taken to court! Everyone who has had their quality of life suffer due to SE venus fly trap type game needs to take this filthy, irresponsible company to court.
People who play FFXI like this linkshell did have obviously lost touch with reality. Once they’ve harmed themselves, which they did by spending 18 hours online making themselves sick, NO court of law would find them mentally sane.
In fact they would probably be sent for mental evaluation and therapy.
IF a Game did that to them, then Someone needs to shut down the game.
And for Gods sake, don’t listen to people who play the game for their opinion on this, Do you ask a heroin addict for their opinion on Heroin when they’re in detox?
Grow up, get help, stop playing FFXI
Maybe have PW drop a pop item every handful of forms, so that it doesn’t just become ridiculously easy. Because if it dropped an item after every form, you could heal up and wait for your 2HRs to reset after every form. I’m not sure how many forms there are, or how long each one takes, but a pop item after every form may be a bit much. That and the pop item should probably be rare/ex or something so they don’t end up on the market.
To Asmodis:
To say that it’s SE’s fault that players have an addiction to this game (or any other company that makes any other game) is not an appropriate conclusion, in any situation. It is like saying its the tobacco company’s fault people smoke. Players still have the free will to stop if they choose, which is EXACTLY what BtL did. They chose to stop when they saw it was having a detrimental effect on their well-being. SE is not to blame for anything (besides thinking we’d be up to the task of taking an 18-hour fight).
Secondly, who else with general knowledge of the mechanics of this game are you gonna ask the opinion of? WoW has nothing to compare, just like several other games. Anyone who hasn’t played this game will tell you this situation is bad. Most people that HAVE played this game agree that this isn’t exactly what we signed up for. That doesn’t make the players that play this game’s opinions less valid. To use your example, the heroine addict (if he’s honest enough) will give you his own opinion, that doesn’t make it invaild just because he tried it and quit.
/rant-at-screamer
To actually put thought into this, pops as you go through PW kinda kills any challenge to the NM, be it PW or AV, or hell even Kirin. We need something with more information regarding these NMs because whatever the dev team thinks is the best way to do it, its not gonna happen. No player (minus the hardcore, no-life, caffeine-addicted players) can stand a 18 hour battle. NO ONE. We’re fine with the 2-3 hour fights (even longer if its half reasonable -points at the 4 hour kirins of the past-). We all accept that, but the jump to 18 hours is too much.
(I apologize to all who don’t like the top part of my comment. I don’t take kindly to screamers like the first poster who do not believe in personal responsibility)
“We’re fine with the 2-3 hour fights (even longer if its half reasonable -points at the 4 hour kirins of the past”
Really? I’m not fine with 2-3 hour fights. The assault system to obtain gear was fine, but the rewards were not that amazing. The zeni system is nice, I can progress as I have time, but the drop rates are low. And with later requirements for the number of people, I’m locked out of some of the NMs and later tiers.
Why can’t those of us who can’t play for hours and hours have any chance at the exact same gear? Why can’t those of us who work odd hours have a chance to get the items that drop from sky/sea/whatever else this game has?
I have problems trying to find or create an xp party during the times I can play because of the huge number of “jp only” players on my server.
I’ve been part of a hardcore linkshell on my server, and there comes a point where sitting around idle for 5+ hours every day camping multiple kings, becomes so tedious that it doesn’t matter what drops it’s just not worth it. You spend more time sitting around doing nothing than actually playing. The constant grind of salvage, Einjerhar, dynamis. sky, sea.. over and over with little to no reward removes the fun. How many times do you need to kill the NM that drops the level 35 part you need? Going 0/29 makes the event an exercise in futility. How many times do you need to kill kirin and only get a crystal for your week long farming effort before you give up? How many years should you need to repeat a dynamis zone before you see a drop for a job you can use?
Now that my schedule has changed, I have zero chance to do any of this content anymore, and any progression (based on items) is over. I can’t even put together enough people to do KS99 runs anymore, not that the rewards from them make them worth the effort anymore.
At least in games like WoW, I’m not required to find 18 of the best players with the best gear to spend 15+ hours farming pop items to fight a mob for an hour just to have it drop a crystal that if sold doesn’t even get everybody there 1 gil.
The flaws in the system go way beyond 18 hour fights.
@Bill “Really? I’m not fine with 2-3 hour fights.”
It is acceptable for a fight that is the hardest in the ZNM line of NMs imo, and according to pretty much everyone else too. PW and AV should take long, but not 18+. Think about it, it would be lame if it would be beatable with 12 ppl and taking only an hour if you consider the rewards after all.
Anyone who says that this is Square’s fault, your are a MORON.
No one put a gun to anyone’s head and MAde them play this video game, it is the responsibilty of the player to stop themselves, and just because someone created a LONG ass battle, that doesn’t mean the the players are being FORCED TO defeat it.
and if they apparently can’t HANDLE a really long fight, Ppfffft, to bad, so sad.
I’d be ecstatic if some of my favourite games absolutely challenged the SH*T out of me to prove myself as a gamer.
Go call the WAAAAAAMBULANCE if you can’t handle this.
Thank you the answer is right there in front of you……..
2. It’s the fault of the players
“Nobody is making you fight this” is a common phrase I have seen being posted in response to this story. The NMs in question are not preventing players from accessing any continuation of story line, they aren’t in the way of doing something else. They are simply at the end of a path of several other Notorious Monsters. If nobody wants to spend such a long time fighting a monster, simply don’t fight it.
Square-Enix is entitled to make their game challenging, its what the most hardcore players want. If you don’t want to get sick fighting NMs then make a shift schedule so people have time to duck out of the fight and get some sleep in and eat.