Ever since the introduction of the ZNM system in the last update, players have been spending their time going up the ZNM tiers in order to gain access to one of the most difficult enemies in Final Fantasy XI: Pandemonium Warden. But we have only heard of a few accounts of the fight which talk about PW changing into different forms along with the Pandemonium Lamps.
The LS “Beyond the Limitation” on Seraph has given Pandemonium Warden a great attempt and even after EIGHTEEN hours, was unable to defeat this monster.
This begs the question “How Long is Too Long?”
We’ve recently learned from the Premier Site Summit that Sage Sundi believes the Absolute Virtue fight to take eighteen hours (or less if you’re lucky). Could it be possible that with the introduction of this new endgame NM system that they decided to add another extremely difficult NM?
BtL had gone through twenty possible forms of the Pandemonium Warden. Some of the forms alone took a few hours to defeat. But the many forms of this monster aren’t the worst thing to come from this fight. After the fight had raged on for 18 hours Sylphet from BtL had posted this in the BG Forums:
People were passing out and getting physically ill. We decided to end it before we risked turning into a horrible new story about how video games ruin people’s lives.
Sylphet has also informed me that several members of BtL actually ended up vomiting by the end of the night from their intense focusing with no breaks for 18 hours.
I think with the recent AV news and now the news of how long PW fights are lasting (without defeating the NM) It might be time to remind Square-Enix of their own message.
Right now the members of Beyond the Limitation just wish Square-Enix to carefully consider their own warning that shows up before a user is able to log into the game.
Hopefully enough people will voice their opinions about these long battles that will make Square-Enix rethink their endgame monster design to include a battle that is still very challenging, but doesn’t require you to spend almost an entire day to defeat.
We are one of very few LS who have killed AV (not using the wall trick) so we know quite well what is futile and what is not. None of us doubt that PW can be killed. We just call into question exactly what the development team thinks is reasonable from human beings.
-Sylphet
This is also the round table disccusion for this week. Please post in our forums and let your voice be heard here.
A member of Btl has updated their Live Journal with an entry detailing the fight and helping to clear up any confusion people may have. View it here.
We would also like to remind those commenting to keep it clean. You can get your point across without using a bunch of cursing.
I think this is still in the works. SE has been conflicted with balance within the game for a long time and one of the biggest issues within the last year is abuse of cheap game mechanics to defeat monsters for example like 2 minute Kirin fights. When AV came out many shells had the same issues and it took considerable time to defeat till the trick was discovered. Thinking about it though there is probably some niche to speed up killing him like AV it just has’nt been discovered yet.
Ok, am I the only one that recalls SE stating and basically swearing up and down that AV will ALWAYS be the hardest monster in the game, or did I dream that up? (Not Joking.) If they did indeed say this like my memory recalls then I truly believe that there is a glitch with PW.
While I did read all except the last 5 or 10 posts shame on each and everyone of you end game players criticizing their effort with negative remarks instead of throwing ideas out their to try and figure this monster out. Which I believe is proof on why cross linkshell events will never happen.
Now my thoughts on this monster is that he needs to shift into a rare form that people have yet to see and kill him as that and the reason why people might not have seen it yet is because of a glitch or programing bug that just loops his forms instead of it being random.
Final thought for all those people that mock others on how they spend their time grow up, what people do with their own life is their own business and concern.
relic weapon takes about 2-4 years to get
AV used to take 4-8 hours to kill before we knew how to kill it fast
hell once my shell took 5hours to kill kirin
Exactally, when making something new and trying to make it both a challenge and reasonable it’s going to take a little time to fine tune it. It may take years to find whatever it is thats required to kill him, and after all no MMO producer has ever thrown anything out of the box perfectly.
For all we know each of the new nyzul relic weapons or WS’s might be the weakness to one of the forms and instantly kills, severly damages, or cancels the form from appearing since there are at least 19 forms (at least discovered); 20 if you count PW himself making his forms equal to total amount of nyzul relic weapons /WS’s. This is of course a theory and will be impossible to test until the next version update.
I remember when we first beat Kirin, it was 30+ ppl and still took 3+ hours; now we can beat him with 21 ppl in seconds. Some ppl do things in this game the dev. team never thought of, such as using nin as a tank. From what i’ve learned about HNM in this game: after u’ve fought it a few times, they become a whole lot easier, faster, and redundant. The problem is getting to fight him enough times to figure out whats best. Although there’s no guarantee that theres a way to significantly cut down the time on PW and AV, and 18+ hours is still ridiculous no matter how dedicated u are. SE probably thought increasing length was the best way to increase difficulty since claim rate and getting enough ppl is really the only thing thats keeping ppl from getting everything in this game.
I’ve never played FF XI, but when i read that these people had raided for 18 hours and said it would probably have taken 2-5 hours extra to get the boss down, I thought something isn’t sane here. You can’t possibly raid this much and yet have a normal life with friends, family etc. I believe it’s up to each one another to decide whether you want to be the best of the best or just be casual. But I can’t really look upon FF XI as a “Game”, if the encounter is an IRL battle .. I mean 21-23 hours to kill a boss, then it’s just to check the capabilities of human beings and what they are capable of, then it’s not a game, then it’s fucking torture / human experiment.
Remember, though..people are also responsible with their time. If a fight is going on that long…stop. It isn’t ALL SE’s fault. Come on, take some responsibility for your lives and stop after so many hours.
My Friends and I run a garrison linkshell on the Garuda server, and once a week we get together and do garrison event lasting up to 8 hours, sometimes more. Fourtunatly we are able to take breaks when ever we feel like because of the way this event is set up. Each wave of fights we do lasts about 20-30 minutes, and we have time to use the restroom inbetween.
I cant imagine what it would be like to fight the same monster(s) like that.
I would definatly need some kind of illegal drug to keep my attention. Along with a catheder, IV, a food tube in my nose, and a bed pan.
I wonder if Square enix had testers attempt this feat, and win.
This is a great example of the pis-poor sensational and yellow journalism of our modern times. You should be ashamed for posting up something with such inaccuracies.
Firstly, he is NOT a boss. He is an extremely difficult OPTIONAL monster which people are hoping will drop some very nice gear or weapons. They spent 18 hours trying to figure out how to beat him and were unsuccessful, this same thing could happen in many titles, as well as in many other things in life if someone had the foolishness to try for such a long duration. It does NOT necessarily take as long as your are implying to beat him. The more difficult monsters in FFXI are designed requiring players to utilize certain strategies. Without them, some of these are near-impossible to defeat. Pandemonium Warden is one of two monsters we have yet to figure out how to defeat.
It is beyond ridiculous that one group spent so long trying to defeat it. It is even more ridiculous that it spawned all of these new articles. So now, your going to point blame at SE because a few select individuals didnt have the common sense to limit themselves? Ridiculous. You should demand better writing from your journalists, and maybe make sure your fact checker isnt sleeping on the job.
Amen to Moo Cow!
Why are there so many WoW players here? gtfo
Minidragon on Bismarck whos dropped out of school and then lived his entire life at a lan center dedicated to becoming the best player in FFXI is the reason why SE made bosses like PW. I remember i felt sorry for this kid once upon a time at the lan center he used to work at where i played FFXI with him, but when i was quitting, this kid cried and begged me for my account.
Minidragon has gone into extreme debt with people he knows IRL to pay for his 10-15 accounts. Some of which he has stolen from the original owners or others he has taken all their gear and thus when they tried to come back they ended up quitting due to having nothing left (Aleyna and other people from AlphaOmega and original IRON members).
Its people like this, the ones who waste their ever living moment playing FFXI to be the “Best player”, the ones who set the standards that it is possible to attain such a high degree of status on FFXI. These are are the people who help SE to know that there is no true limitation.
Its true, this post is more or less not quite relating to topic, but at the same time, it sort of is.
Okay, so let me get this straight.
A bunch of players gathered together, and set out to vanquish Pandemonium’s form-swapping Warden. The fight was gruelling and taxed them greatly, but in the end, they prevailed.
I can understand ‘gruelling’ battles that make you think and get tense, but not ones that last for the better part of the day, with nothing to break up the mind-numbing monotony or the ability to retreat to somewhere out-of-the-way and AFK for a while.
Also, to all of you people blasting the players involved and lauding the insane scientists that created the Warden: you people, most likely, do not have any souls.
@Raikomaru
Actually they didn’t prevail in the end, the wiped and did not defeat PW maybe you should read the article
Has anyone decided to look at the concept from this POV?
PW is the {Mega Boss} of ZNM… the concept of ZNM was to give players who don’t get to camp HNMs on a regular basis a chance. Remember how we all laughed at how “easy” it was going to be? I find it hilarious that this is SE’s idea of giving people with not enough time to get the full gist of the game. I mean serious WTF where they thinking?
No one even mentioned the time it took for BTL to obtain all the triggers either… Which for them probably not that long… but all the pictures and killing mini bosses etc… then an 18+hr fight and nothing to show for it… It’s really sad… This “game” is hard, yes, but it’s no longer a game anymore… it’s like a job almost.
And for all the people who keep saying “If your going to complain don’t fight it or don’t do it blah blah blah.” Consider this… The majority of BTL, some of which are my friends, have done almost everything SE has to offer. And not just once but a crap load of times. SO why wouldn’t they attempt something new like this? I just think it’s stupid that people can be so closed minded like that….
BTL is known for their great strats and accomplishments in this not just on Seraph but from what I know from RL friends on their servers too. And actually many people use their strats on a regular basis to get shit done. It’s not even a case where they didn’t know what they were doing (like someone said earlier)… besides if they didn’t they wouldn’t have lasted that long.
I give props to BTL for trying, hell, I respect them for being physically and mentally abused by SE over and over again. It doesn’t make them stupid. It shows their commitment, dedication, and determination to be the best. And hell they are. So kudos to you guys! XD
Also to those who say go out side and get a life, hobby, etc… This is our hobby… It’s not like we make fun of you when you super glue your finger to your Gundam Model….
What I find hilarious is that I play WoW, and Illidan is the only fight with a -25- minute enrage timer, the longest of any fight in the game.
Sure, it cuts back on the epic scale, but when you consider that there’s a lot of 1HK attacks (or what amount to 1HKs on people who aren’t tanks), and a lot of dying in learning the new content, it can still take a few hours to go from cleared to the boss to cleared the boss.
This is proof that MMOs and their developers are truly ignorant of what makes a good game, and that the players of such games are truly pathetic shut-in losers if they actually enjoy this kind of thing. Anyone that dedicates 10+ hours to a SINGLE ENEMY in any game should be executed, no questions asked. They will never be anyone important.
Here’s an idea.
While 18 hour fights in the vain hope of obtaining what is basically still just a piece of data are probably fun for some, why not try using that 18 hours to earn IRL money and buy yourself something nice? You may get exercise along the way, eat, and genuinely have something real to show for your efforts.
Just my personal feelings, but its personal choice at the end of the day.
As far as I am aware, SE threw this boss into the game upon discovery that their previous 18 hour boss had been beat. All they are trying to do is provide a challenge, then a challenge to top off that challenge and so on. They arent trying to kill ppl or make them ill, does anyone realise how farfetched this actually sounds?
Why do they make challenges so hard?
Because over time the hours and difficulty of beating a boss have gradually increased up until this point. Whats the point in making a boss that is the same difficulty as another boss, will just be repetitive game then.
Perhaps the boss is not meant to be beaten, but is actually meant to dramatically lvl up players who are truly dedicated to the game.
Or maybe the whole beauty of it is to beat the boss you just have to leave it alone, and it wont hurt anyone?
The point is, if its in the game there is a way to beat it. Even if by beating it you are not killing it, you are just being smart. Think splinter cell or deus ex, you can complete these games by killing but you can also complete them by using stealth and avoiding people.
I have never played final fantasy online, but quite frankly after hearing about this impossible boss, it is tempting me to actually play the game. I would so much love to be worshipped as the only person who can beat that boss, all the glory I would receive haha.
Maybe thats what square are trying to do, in real life you cannot always succeed, sometimes you just have to give up. What if they are testing us?
I don’t have a clue, but I sure as hell wanna play this game and have a look at this impossible boss fight. And I thought emerald weapon on ff7 was hard hahahah.
My take…
18 hours is too long. I personally would never have stuck around nearly that long. Were I leading it, at some point, I would have said “Okay.. this ain’t working. Something we’re not doing right.” and called it
If I wasn’t leading it and was someone there helping and started feeling ill, I’d have said “guys.. sorry.. but I’m feeling like I’m going to throw up.. I can’t hang in anymore”. And I would have left.
If the leader had an issue with it, I’d say “well, that’s unfortunate” and left anyway. If it meant being kicked from the LS… so be it. My life is more important than a game. Period. End of discussion.
Like has been said, the fight might very well be a relatively short one (couple hours, etc) after some trick has been figured out. That they went 18 hours could very well be a sign that they were doing something very, very wrong.
Second of all.. that they decided to go 18 hours non-stop is *not SE’s fault*. It’s *theirs*. I’m so sick of people refusing to accept personal accountability. No one put a gun to their head. No one forced them to stay there. No one prevented them from calling it quits – either as a group, or individually.
Personally… 18 hours on any one task in any game is way beyond reasonable in my book. It blows past ‘reason’ and ‘sanity’ as though they were standing still. So… I wouldn’t do it. I may never get a chance to cross swords with AV or PW… And that’s fine. It’s content that’s simply beyond what I consider worth that much of my time. If others are so obsessed with pixels on a screen that they will push themselves to unnatural and unhealthy lengths for it, to the point of illness, frankly, that’s a symptom of a much bigger problem than the game they’re playing, IMO.
In the end.. we’re talking about 2 boss encounters in a game with how much other content? Even if players are amazing and have completed everything else.. there’s still nothing *forcing* them to take on AV or PW. They do it because *they choose to*. They stick around for 18 hours because *they choose to*. Getting sick is a result of *their choice to not quit sooner*. Period.
Berate SE for creating unreasonably difficult mobs, sure. But don’t blame them because people *choose* to actually put that much time into fighting them.
One of the biggest problems with people these days… Nothing’s ever their own fault.
I agree with people like Preypacer.
I thought the whole talk about “SE is being unfair” was just playful talk to overlook the fact that these L0sers( they did lose the fight) spent 18+hours repeating the same crap in a video game.
But nooooo, you guys really are trying to blame the games developers.lol
Have fun.
18 Hours?
That’s about how long I played the game before cancelling my subscription.
Kudos to Square-Enix for thinking a fight that takes an entire day is completely reasonable and fun.
I just recently heard about all this FFXI banning and was employed by Minidragon at the lan center he ran a couple years ago called The Stomping Grounds aka TSG. I’m not gonna get into anything about the bannings or who he was as a person I just wanted to post saying that the “tehjew” up above was not the real original owner of the account. That person was either someone from the lan center that came across this or someone in FFXI that knew Tehjew was owned by Minidragon or perhaps received the character from him. I don’t know enough about the situation to pass judgement since I quit FFXI years ago(sold my account to Minidragon). I just don’t like people impersonating me lol. I will say this situation is pretty surreal though.
Just because they lasted and played that long does not necessarily mean that it was intended to. How does square enix determine how long a fight lasts. There is no draw rule like in chess, perhaps a time limit should be added to this fight, but then we get players complaining that they would have beaten it if not for the timer. Noone forced those players to play for that long. That was their choice, They probably have played for longer stretches of time on their own, yet reveled in the idea of bragging about how long they stayed on to beat this boss, but when the boss could not be beaten they turn to complaining. Square even brought out a team of players who defeated this boss to prove it could be done, and it took nowhere near 18 hours.
Nice! i wont so bosses in World of warcraft :>