Today many people were temporarily suspended or permanently banned from Final Fantasy XI. For once the report did not mention swarms of RMT, but instead the banning of real players. The accounts banned were found guilty of duplicating drops in the game. Many people in the community strongly feel that a temporary suspension of POL and FFXI would be appropriate against the people using this glitch to their benefit, however to permanently ban people for this seems extremely unfair.
To make things worse, people that have called the information center for clarification have been told several different stories. We contacted Square Enix for confirmation regarding the suspension codes.
- LM-11: Your account is permanently banned
- LM-17: You should contact the information center for more information. You will then be asked to verify your account and then be told the meaning of the message.
I was given an LM-17 this afternoon and when I contacted the information center they said my account was permanently banned. Why was I given an LM-17 (temp ban) message then?
The item duplication was possible during several instanced endgame events in FFXI. These events include Nyzul Isle Assault, Salvage, and the Doomvoid portion of the Notorious Monster “Sandworm”. The glitch would work if you had an alliance of two or more parties and broke the alliance before an item dropped from a treasure chest or monster. Once the item(s) were in the treasure pool, you merely had to change the party leader to have a copy of each item available to each one of the parties in the dissolved alliance.
Final Fantasy XI is notorious for having difficult and secretive content. Some players honestly believed that perhaps this could be something that the developers included into the game, especially with the low drop rates of armor in salvage. The monster Absolute Virtue comes to mind, a monster who’s ‘weakness’ has yet to be discovered even after several attempts by Square Enix to give its players clues. In fact, after enough attention was brought to Square Enix they changed said 18 hour monster to be able to be defeated in two hours. Then, after that NM was defeated Square Enix changed it again to make it unbeatable. In a game where so many things are made secret, and there are always adverse ways to complete your mission or objective, how does finding a way to maximize your time in an event by breaking an alliance deserve a permanent ban from the game? Due to the rarity of items enabling you to progress through salvage, this may have seemed like an intended part of the event for many players.
Another huge issue people are having is that individuals are getting permanently banned for this. Most feel like a simple temporary ban would suffice. Others think they should have gotten a warning by Square Enix explaining the glitch and that it was unacceptable. People have gotten a suspension for racism, harassment, threatening someone in game, grievance to a linkshell or individual, fish botting, mine botting, and bot claiming monsters on their first offense. So how do those actions warrant a suspension to the game, but individuals dissolving an alliance are getting banned. 
How is it that some individuals who admit to over using the duplication have gotten a warning while some have only been temporarily suspended, some have been banned, but some have had nothing done against their account? Where’s the consistency?
Ultimately, it was a breeding storm right from the get-go: Salvage drop rates are like summer rain – few, far between, and highly fought over. The glitch allowing for the duplication of these hard-earned items only made for the perfect solution to that problem. Don’t be under the impression that this glitch somehow gave players gaurenteed drops or anything, we still had to work at zones for months on end to see the fruits of our labor. The glitch did nothing to increase drop rates, only triple what we did get.
I won’t deny, in retrospect, that what we did might’ve been a bit too much. But the facts of the matter is, we’re obtaining rare/ex gear, that has to be put together with other drops to complete more rare/ex gear, that only we can benefit from. Now if you were to look at the other instances of this glitch’s application: Sandworm, Ashu Talif, Assaults… those are considerably easier for players to profit from exploiting. Sandworm & Ashu Talif are both balant sources of sellable drops for gil. Are the people who exploited those things being treated with the same condescending hand as those of us who only used it in salvage? Not what I see.
At this time, a lot of players have been permanently banned, many of them unfairly. In order to correct this, we must make our community discontent with this fiasco known to SEI. To those who feel this unfair, file complaint reports with GMs or Online, encourage everyone you know in-game to do the same. A single report will do little, but in getting a large group movement to go against them, they will have little choice but to buckle and reconsider their actions.
I doubt that some members, who already had numerous strikes against them, have any hope of getting their accounts back. But those of us who were only guilty of duping, should still have hope if we band together on this matter.
They KNOW it’s wrong and yet they did it anyway. They are FULLY AWARE of what they’re doing. Although in a personal level I thought a PERMANENT ban was too much, the mere fact that the ToS says SE can kick your ass whenever they want for whatever reason (or no reason), you are definitely agreeing to it by clicking on that “play” button and entering the world of Vana’diel.
This is not about consistency of punishment. Although the article is written nicely, it does not justify the guilt of these players who did what they KNOW is wrong and yet did it anyway. You reap what you sow. You did something wrong and now you’re paying for it. I understand that drop rates are extremely horrible, but you can do something about it. SE did it with Dynamis drops, so perhaps if SE receives enough complaints they’ll up the dorp rates of these too. Until then, those who took advantage of the duping: tough luck. I’m sorry you guys got banned, but I’m not gonna say you guys don’t deserve it.
Wow, skipped that wall of text to leave my own thoughts, something I sent in to SE:
When I first heard of the recent bannings over the Salvage/Sandworm glitches, I was satisfied that people who had broken the rules had gotten what they deserved. Now I’m not so sure. I have read several accounts of people committing the same “crime” with varying punishments, seemingly the worst offenders getting off easily and the innocent and realitivly innocent being permanently banned.
I think in this matter the best thing for everyone would be to lift the bannings and remove any ill gotten gains from those accounts.
well i don’t post many things but this is something worth my time to chime in on. I was Stratis on the gilim. server and relocated to midg. server and changed my name. i started the game the day it was release in na. i was in a high shell and did all the end game stufff. i went to dynamis for over 2 straight years and didn’t get 1 drop. it was this crappy drop rates of items that drove me nutz and made me quit the game. i don’t think that the items that drop should drop ever time but I do think some drop rates are too insane. how many of you know a person that waited years for certain items from dynamis. I am not justifying the situation but i understand why some people have done it. Even now that i returned to play the game i don’t do anything end game because of the bad view it had stuck with me. The only real end game thing i have done in the last year is nyzle. I did that for about 6 months and got one armor drop. my static got 3 drops all together. i am not sure if i would or wouldn’t of done it chin if i came across this glitch. but all of us need to understand the drive of people that do end game stuff, devote alot of time in the game and alot of times the time spent no where near justifies the rewards. so people need to try to understand the and view this situation from both sides and not be so judgemental to either Chin or Se.
Can anyone please leave the best e-mail address they know of to send a complaint/feedback to SE that will actually be read? Every address I have tried just generates an auto-response. Thanks
Perma bans were over the top, when there are other players out there who have admited to using the exploit many times and only got a warning email or less, when others who used it once or twice just before the patch and have no prior incidents on their account are perma banned to never play again… honestly this is outrageous. So many good players and people have been removed from our servers, people that have developed our knowledge of ingame mechanics, strategies and play styles. What’s going to happen to the game when those of us vetrans that are still here decide it’s time for us to leave as well… are the newer players just going to let the HNMs sit there because they don’t know how to take them down? Yes some endgamers were cocky and arrogant… but look at how long they have been playing, the gear they accumulated without duping or cheating. That takes skill and time and a knowledge for the game that newbies don’t have and now… may never have without these players that were banned to guide them.
SE you messed up huge, there was no consistancy in your bannings or temp suspensions.
http://news.cnet.com/2100-1043_3-6169517.html
SE isn’t the only company that has methods of banning players, because *gasp* Blizzard does it too! Though in thinking about this and reading up on things… And after making a post on my blog about my opinion. Well, we’re whining about less than .2 percent of the entire userbase of FFXI. According to the last census, FFXI has over 500,000 accounts. And we’re complaining about how 990 of them got banned.
Want a game where you can do what you want without fear of being banned? Then find one of those free RPGs that are advertised all over the internet. There you can bot, buy and sell currency and items and bot without fear of being banned. Forget the fact that most of those games are full of bots, lack plotline, and are full of spam. At least you won’t be banned for doing anything.
If you don’t want to do that, I would suggest getting over this, see if you can make another account and start over from level 1 with no subjob. Maybe some of your friends could assist you in getting your levels, gear and quests back? What a perfect opportunity to spend time with them. Innocent or guilty, SE has their reasons, as outlined numerous times before. I would highly suggest moving on.
“No misfortune is so great that whining about it won’t make worse”
I am going to preface my comments with examining the history of this whole issue. Over a year ago, an issue with how gear appears in the treasure pool appeared, and players discovered it. For well over a year, players took advantage of this glitch, mainly to get salvage gear. A year later, SE discovers the issue, and fixes the issue rather quickly. A few months later, players who have took advantage of this were banned or warned in various degrees.
Simply put, I think that this banning round was not so much to punish people, but to send a warning to all players. All players have three responsibilities when it comes to things like this.
First is to not use exploits when they come up.
Second is to not keep using exploits if they are discovered.
Third is to report such things to SE when they are discovered.
Remember that this exploit was literally kept secret for well over a year until SE discovered. I’m willing to bet most players in general didn’t know about it until SE fixed it.
Having said this, this banning was NOT about punishing people. It was about sending a message to the players, a message that says that players are not to use these exploits, and that they should be reporting these bugs to SE so they can be fixed quickly.
As to why some players got off with just a mere warning while others got the full brunt of the banhammer, I would say that it was done on purpose to show that there is no gray area, that using and not reporting an exploits just once is grounds for being banned.
I feel for those players who got banned. I hope that they aren’t too upset by it, and wish well for them in the future.
For everyone else, I hope that this message is taken to heart for the future.
Sign the petition if you are against the bans!
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/square-enix-bannings-of-innocent-users.html
As someone who received a LM-17 temp ban, this is my take on this:
Mandze, thank you for you post, that means a lot to me.
written 1-24-09:
The things that piss me off are not that we turned out to be wrong, not that we may have to pay full price for our actions, but that:
1) I (among apparently many others) thought this really sounded like a built in thing, since it was around so long and so widespread and SE’s penchant for really hard to figure out things that often make no sense given other examples in the game…oops
2) Now ours name are going to be on the wall o’ shame at BG, forever associated with people who are “known by many to have cheated before/been in ls’s accused of it 100′s of times” & in some cases are known {long time} for being some of the most questionable schmoes on the server, yes I know, some of them are nice guys/gals, but we’re now going to be considered in the same breath as big time HNMers who used claimbots and pos/flee hacks while claiming they didn’t… even if any of us aren’t perma banned, we’ll forever be questioned in any LS we’re in about our integrity. The folks who know me won’t know what to do with me, given how much I’ve ranted about gil buyers/sellers and blatant HNM cheaters, gilsellers or “real players”.
3) I was OK with risking my account because this seemed to work too well and be around too long for someone NOT to have already reported this to the GM’s and if it was a “glitch” that they “didn’t want to be programmed”, it’s a pretty important, major glitch and given that our LS couldn’t have POSSIBLY been the first or only to wonder whether this was legal or not, whether it was an NA EU or JP or elsewhere LS, SOMEONE had to have reported this and that’s pretty logical, but what’s not logical is for SE to sit on it for so long, fix it & THEN wait a month and then blow who knows how much money reviewing a year’s worth of logs to just indiscriminately ban people without actually affecting some of the people who benefited from this in the worst fashion. But since I didn’t think SE would act the way it’s acted about this in the first place, which led me to believe it wasn’t a glitch, I didn’t anticipate that my friends who did not deserve a perma ban would get it, it just didn’t even occur to me that people who made literally 10′s of millions of gil duping the ISNM drops are seeming to be getting away without a scratch, same with Nyzul Isle dupers, but salvagers (especially in our case, who didn’t even know about the Nyzul or ISNM duping until after the “fix”) who thought this was legit are getting hammered by a failing non-senscial robot dual-wielding the ban-hammers. I had no clue they’d be so random about who’s getting punished. I’ve never had a GM called on me, didn’t even know about item duping for the barone corazza until this week (thanks to BG), didn’t know about the dc’ing trade dupe trick until this week (thanks to BG) and at least one person/people that rank really high on the FFXIAH achievement listing (all 75s, 3+ relics or w/e) apparently used this like mad & benefits the armor by the armful & gets the nasty-gram while others of the same class get the perma-ban, ???
4) I’m having FFXI nightmares over the guilt that I may have had a part in getting multiple friends banned. This waiting a month to ban people and then being spasmodic and indiscriminate and unfair and seemingly unwilling to listen to most people, this smells almost like badly done entrapment. Yes, I read the TOS and EULA, and yes I wasn’t sure about this tactic, but waiting ~2 yrs to fix this means that SE failed in programming, failed at QA’ing it, failed at investigating any prior complains/questions (which there HAD to be), failed at simulating with the developers the possibilities the prior questions/complaints should have brought up, failed at waiting so long to implement the fix, and then failed at customer service by flailing the ban stick like a wacky inflatable arm tube man in front of a used car dealership. Honestly, the idea that if you have to question a tactic, it must be illegal is valid, but this isn’t entirely our fault, SE fails but takes it out on us, their revenue source… how again is that customer service, TOS or EULA and complexity of programming the game aside, if they screw up, admit it, not play entrapment.
5) … on 1-26-09, I find out *apparently* there are year-old screenshots of this glitch being explained to GMs and they are somehow not being plastered all over BG KI Alla or here, etc?
???
BTW, My experience with this was: this was discussed for literally 3 weeks before we even used it and then it limited to 4 runs in the 2 weeks right before the “fix”, the 2nd of which we couldn’t make it work cause we were lacking our source person. The 3rd we almost timed out on the MB & some one didn’t pass in time so we lost both drops anyways, so only the 1st & 4th runs we tried this on did it work. Personally, the one piece I got during this time would have been mine anyways under the Salvage LS rules that we wrote… and yes, I fully appreciate the irony of that final statement…
to clarify our experience:
total drops that actually got “issued” in 2 runs (not counting cells), 5
total drops that apparently shouldn’t exist (not counting cells), 7
total people with drops that could possibly be called “issued”, 7
total people that got temp bans, 5
total people that got just the warning email, 2
total people that got nothing at all but attended these runs, 2 afaik
total people perma’d that got “issued” drops, 2
total people perma’d that got 0 drops with us, 1 (admittedly, source person/organizer, got one “issued” drop in other shell)
Here’s the kicker, none of these people have stated they had prior infractions that had resulted in bans by the GMs, none of these people duped the ISNM or Sandworm drops, at the most only 2 actually “issued” the little Alex we got.
Send a message, instill the fear of the RANDOM ban in regular players, ok point made, but the randomness of who got punished vs. their level of infraction is way off base. Using the “issue” on 4 runs with no prior offenses = perma ban, but being one of the most well known players and using this for a year plus and getting away with a wagon-load of gear but not even a temp ban? ??? How is that consistent, fair or logical?
I’m sorry that this happened to you Chin. My opinion is temp bans should have been given to everyone. If feasible (time-wise) all the duplicated gear should be removed from all players. If not then the reason should be given and there should be a mark on their account so if anything happens in the future, they will be permanently banned. If they already had a mark against them, they should be permanently banned, but SE should be required to tell you all the reasons and priors. I see it is the same as using windower, goes against ToS to make the game supposedly “easier” for you, as great gear does in essence. Its bad that they pick and choose their banning. I know that SE is not required to tell people why they were banned and can just do it randomly, but if they want to be an ethically driven company, they should hold themselves to the same high standards as they want their customers(players) to be, and be truthful and provide full explanations on an individual basis. Whether duplicating items was wrong, it definitely was not right, out of fairness to all who did not know of the glitch, but I can see the temptation.
By the way, wasn’t Golden Salvage Assault glitched at one time where you can complete it because the treasure chest could be targeted weird so you knew it was a mimic right away? Players took advantage of that glitch and no one was banned for it. Was it because AP was only used to buy less expensive gear? Was this ban because of the quality of the drop or the secrecy behind it?
It’s pretty obvious that people who are banned most likely aren’t coming back. Let’s all act like mature people and move on, and stop bashing each other? Pwease?
All we can do is accept SE’s decision and hope that they give more information behind it. Maybe they will or maybe they won’t, but whatever happens… happens.
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/square-enix-bannings-of-innocent-users.html
Copy/paste site and sign!!
My favorite glitch was the “Force D.ring”glitch.
This salvage glitched increased the productivity of each run by approximately 3 times. The D.ring glitch increased the productivity of KBs (and BCNM50s, and Proto Ultima/Omega runs) many many times that and no one was banned for it. Those drops are still around.
People using Windower can set fillmode=0 in the Sheep in Antlion’s Clothing ENM and see the NM even when he’s underground, becoming able to solo it as a result. If you can’t see him, you have to trio it so you have enough damage to handle links. That’s another circumvention of game mechanics that results in a 3-fold increase in productivity, yet they do nothing about it and quite a few of the people flaming dupers probably use it.
SE’s track record with banning clearly didn’t indicate there would be any punishment for this glitch, yet we wound up with permas. There are times when I wonder if they’re just intentionally thinning out their hardcore players so they can shut down the servers sooner.
I was really disappointed with the what Square Enix did. I am not privy to what the other players did to get their verdicts but from the looks of things I agree with the others when they say Square Enix’s decisions on who to ban and termporarily ban were inconsistent.
Please let me explain what happened.
My nephew, whom I take care of because his parents (my sister and brother inlaw) died in an unfortunate car accident. He survived the accident -but is paralyzed from the waste down. He spends most of his time with my fiance who teaches him though home school. Since the accident he hasn’t had the opportunity to do anything out side such as playing football, climbing trees, playing fetch with the family dog, surfing, or even taking walks in the evening when the sun is setting. His activities are limited to the wheelchair he sits in for the better part of every day.
His favorite game is Final Fantasy XI because even though he doesn’t admit it, he can be around people and enjoy activities and feel like he isn’t limited to his wheel chair. When I come home from work, I always make sure he completes his lessons. And I ask him: So what did you do today?” He says things like: “I reached level 72 today on my Redmage.” or “I completed a mission today with my friends in Final Fantasy XI.” I get happy because he really took the death of his parents really hard. And playing Final Fantasy XI makes him happy.
He went on his first Salvage Run earlier this month and did not know about any exploits or cheats in the game. He is 9 years old. It was his first time and all he wanted to do was see what Salvage was like and go on a mission with his online friends. He didnt even get anything that was worth bragging about. You guys Banned him?? for what? for hanging around his friends?
He has never cheated or participated in Real Money Trading. Everything that he has, he has earned through long hours and dedication. Sure, the gear he wears might be 10 or 15 levels below what is considered “good armor” but he earned it and he spent long hours synth-ing items to sell on the auction house to save up enough money to get the armor he wants.
Now my nephew is sad again. I feel really sad too, it seems like the things he loves keeps getting taken away from him without any reason. Thanks alot Square Enix. In fact, if me and my friends ever catch wind that anyone who works for Squre Enix is close by, you better call the police because you’re gonna need them. Because we will give you an ASS -BEATING that you can tell your bosses about.. And if youre bosses what a piece, bring it on bitches. -We’ll see how god like you are behind your keyboards.
Final Fantasy XI was one of the only things that made my nephew feel like he belonged.
Thanks ALOT SE
It has always amazed me when people who get caught come out of the woodwork demanding fair action and complaining about their rights. The injustice for all theory is also another common line of thought these cheaters use in the hopes people with sympathize with them. One comment “…just used the exploit for over a month…” is a perfect example. He’s complaining that since he was banned and several others who were not banned there is an inconsistency to the process. I say to this, Who says they are done banning people? Do you have any idea how long it takes to GREP lines of code? To look for patterns and script out tools to monitor, detect, and produce results to ban someone? As everyone cries about their wasted time they always over look one thing, THEY CHEATED! If someone steals your car and they get caught and say, “Well my friend steals more cars than me and he never gets caught so you should let me go..” you’d laugh in his face and prosecute his butt. These people virtually signed a legally binding agreement and they violated it. Not just once, but several times each week. So while people are spending two plus years trying for items these people are getting them in at a rate of months. There is no excuse for the punishment here, there doesn’t need to be. While most of the banned people are calling SE and complaining in Emails and publishing web sites about how unfair this is and how long they’ve worked have they stopped one time to think about honest gamers? People who don’t cheat, don’t inflate the economy, don’t ruin game play for other players, no they don’t. This is typical and this type of punishment hopefully will make them think twice. These are the same players who complain about RMT and slander people non-stop because they don’t have gear in the same class well now you don’t have any gear period. Instead of crying and moaning about getting punished for cheating spend all this time investing in a new character and start playing again. If you can’t put forth the effort to get another character back up in the running A. you weren’t that good and have probably used other exploits B. buy gil and that’s how you afford most of your gear c. don’t really care enough about that game and should move on.
Now to address the issue of people claiming it’s the developers fault for putting the glitch in there. Technically you are right, they did the code and they did put that in there. Then again you are required to report these types of coding issues and avoid using them. You think the developers are sitting around sticking pencils in their noses out of boredom? They are slammed with work. They are constantly fixing issues and still trying to prepare for new items, versions to the game to keep YOU the cheating player happy. This situation just shows how immoral these players truly are. The technical staff gets these reports and has to try and duplicate them. Review thousands upon thousands lines of code trying to find the error and if it’s nothing they can spot right away than yeah, “the area is working fine” is going to be the response. They can’t stop an entire MMO right then and there. If half the people complaining actually had some technology background in business they would understand how long it can take to find, design, revise, test, and implement simple scripts into a live system. God forbid that they put something in that isn’t tested and the system goes down. Then these exact same players complain about, “oh the systems down why don’t they test these things?” These types of players NEVER take any responsibility for their actions and always have someone else to blame.
Face it you cheated you got banned. If you didn’t cheat you wouldn’t be in this situation.
End-of-Story.
i’d have to agree with the harsh-sounding people in that yes, some people trying to write this off as a possible “SE secret way to increase drop rates through creativity” is indeed BS for justifying the cheat.
the reason drop rates are absolutely horrible on awesome stuff is not only because it’s the top gear, but because SE wants your money. the longer activities take to do, the more 1/3/5/30-Day Earth Time limitations they place on what you want to do, the more months you’re paying for a subscription.
of course this doesn’t have to be true in that people won’t leave an MMO that already pleases them…..but the fact remains they’ve already been losing subscribers for some time now….many relic owners have quit of their own accord out of simple boredom.
however, supporting its credibility (i believe) would be the fact that WoW is a more complete game – i don’t think i’m going to play it at any point because i’ve seen how mind-numbingly easy it is firsthand, but it includes the trappings of a virtual world i’ve come to miss from the days of original everquest. swimming, flying, jumping, this made everything more organic….an adjective i can honestly say is sorely lacking from FFXI. But, since many of us have been playing for more than a couple years (i’ve personally been playing since christmas 2003), we’re going to look to justify why we’re still playing—-which brings me to the heart of my comparison.
-many of us are like PS3 owners…the potential for the PS3 is great (it’s technologically the most powerful system on the market today), but programming for the system is hard due to unprecedentedly complex architecture. on top of that, sony does not give developers proper development kits, when they give them out at all. so here we are with $500-$600 (now $400-$500) worth of equipment and few games. the games we do have are table scraps from the 360′s house or traditionally cross-platform titles, whereas the 360 has tons of exclusives we wish we had.
-Final Fantasy XI could be an incredibly strong MMO, especially with the writing of the past games (think FF Tactics’ detail in specific) and brand recognition, but Square-Enix is working so hard on pandering to the japanese audience (thanks Enix) and working on 8000 remakes/mash-ups at the same time as FFXIII with Hironobu Sakaguchi gone to mistwalker, they “don’t have time” to speak with and learn from with their fan base in a meaningful way. now we have 2-6 years worth of work with barely anything to show for it except friends we probably haven’t seen face to face. there are exceptions like people that hook up thanks to the game (:\), but for the most part it’s people who’ve played so long it’s just part of the routine now….despite the game offering less than many other high-profile MMOs in terms of actual adventure, and more along the line of “do this until you have 6000 1-byne bills then you get a great weapon. oh, 100-byne bills drop like once a week…..if you’re lucky. we’re still not gonna tell you if Treasure Hunter is bullshit or not.”
put to easier terms, think of Final Fantasy as a franchise vs. Elder Scrolls and Fallout 3. the new western RPGs are much more immersive and fleshed-out than the tired japanese way of doing things. seriously, an overwhelming majority of the japanese game industry doesn’t enjoy change, instead clinging to dusty old formulas that have persisted for what would now be 2 decades, but has changed very little fundamentally over all that time.
forgive my use of final fantasy as it seems to contradict what i’m saying, but keep in mind we all know that the team behind 11 is in no way the team behind the console iterations….Final Fantasy is a large name, very popular with us, however the big money makers in it’s homeland of japan are the Tales series, and Dragon Quest. Tales is so low in production value, they pretty much put out Tales of Legendia and Tales of the Abyss within a year of each other……all they had to do was change the art assets and localization of text. the Tales series is ALWAYS the same. Dragon Quest stops the nation of japan dead in its tracks…..but there’s nearly nothing different between any of their systems.
FF is instead the black sheep in that it’s traditionally japanese, but strives to change some facet of it’s gameplay (be it story, travel methods, world setting, technology, combat system) with every iteration.
with the dudding of Everquest I and II and SWG, it seemed FFXI’s influence would spread into the MMO market. on the contrary, it appears their think tank of directors and producers simply pushing out an easier-to-program, more aesthetically pleasing Everquest with the FF name attached proved self-destructive.
leaving the simple wonders of jumping, flying, and swimming as methods of transport (harder to program true 3D movement), while opting to make you work twice a week every week for a full year and change (if everything goes well, and you have 2 million gil per week in game) to get a relic weapon from when dynamis was introduced till late last year, when it was reduced to 1 million gil per week – something seems a little off. now it’s like we’re playing an incredibly well-dressed korean level grinder, but it’s not like it’ll stop being a korean level grinder at heart.
i guess the best way to put my PS3 reference would be in the form of Uncharted: Drake’s Fortune. the game has great reviews, but due to poor PS3 sales in North America, is still $60 here in the U.S., as opposed to the budget $30 equivalent in other countries, the continent of europe in specific. what seems to be the case here looks the same as sony’s current plight: “the system isn’t selling here, so let’s at least try to break even.”
since subscribtions are lacking in north america after the tsunami of WoW, it appears long-time, or difficult-to-complete content would be their way of keeping current customers, instead of innovative content. that being said, it looks like Square-Enix is keeping the player base down on communication and idea-gathering in favor of the tried and tested japanese method of leave “profitable enough alone.”
expect SE to be hands off when it comes to a matter as sensitive as this, when anyone can see, after a true investigation, your method of punishment isn’t random, PLUS you should be able to (as the game’s developers and staff) to just remove certain items from player’s inventories.
honestly, i think the article’s written sort of half-heartedly in leiu of personal tragedy, and would like to speak with Chin to hear what she has to say unabated by simple text, but what are the chances of that? i propose some sort of podcast with….Limit Break Radio, since that’s the only FFXI podcast i care about, to hear her put her feelings and unbiased observations on the point into a truly coherent and convincing manner.
sorry for the long-ass post, i always write an article when i post or comment wherever >.<
-VJ+
After what has happened to my character – I’d say duping is the permaban onry situation.
My account was banned for spamming /random – which turned into a permaban due to a prior offense that occurred 4 years ago. And I gained a big whopping nada from my offenses. (what, my spamming /random is what caused the lag that resulted in my LS not claiming FF?? That was the big gain I got banned for???)
They duped, got banned, case closed. If you’re trying to say they didn’t know, didn’t realize…. You seriously want us to believe the devs intended for pts to drop, reform, and play chinese fire drills mid-instance? You did read that crap before posting didn’t you? You knew if you did it, it would increase drops. Look at it this way – at least you gained something from cheating.
I do not condone what these people did, and I do believe every single one of them knew what they were doing was wrong and knew they took a risk doing it. I also think that the punishment was far too harsh. I think if they would have had all of their salvage gear and money taken away and been banned for, say a month… the point would have gotten across just fine and that punishment would have hit them plenty hard. Perma-banning them was just overkill.
Now, if when researching these players they found that they were botting, buying gil, or anything else illegal like that, THEN they should have been perma-banned, but not based on this one incident alone.
and that’s my two cents.
i think you will find there was a huge sort through tells those who abused the exploit and laughed hard about it with friends prolly got the perma bans and all i can say is hahahahahahaha hillarious loved it good bye to players who cheat
keep it up SE ban em all.
If by the game being over means that you wouldn’t play anymore, I feel the masses would rejoice! Any more comments like this, you know one’s like you think you’re the king of FFXI and a god amoung mere mortals and I’ll stop publishing them. Gtfo with your empty threats and holier than thou attitude, if you don’t have something constructive to say for input, then the mods are going to start blocking future comments. Because you might be able to call SE about me, or the site all you want, but it has no bearing on what we do on this site.
Be an adult ffs, either have a normal conversation or debate with me, or don’t even try.
I think to say that everyone that was banned has done things to get in trouble in the past is broad statement, and one that just isn’t true. There’s good and bad in almost everything anyone does everday. I know out of the 7 people in my salvage group no one had ever been jailed before, nor do I believe they had done anything worth a jailing previously.
Yes Seibar, thanks for bringing your personal grudge against me here. It clearly shows not only how smart you are, but also how immature you are. I guess when it boils down to it, I should have been more like you right? I should be friends with people who have been suspended for selling gil. You are right? Oh you didn’t know? Look at your own friends before you try and attack me. Thanks!!!!! Have a nice day!!!!!
Wow I’m flattered, was I a role model? Am I still?
The facts are I finished 1 complete piece of gear off of a dupe. The 4/5 skadi I had up until weds was done 100% legit. Go figure. If you’re trying to pick a fight over SW and Nyzul go ahead and find people specifically saying that it was ‘ok to do’ otherwise stop trying to be as cool as starcade. Now that’s clearly a person worthy of your envy.
Adios to you seibar! It’s good to know that people who have had prior problems with me feel the need to actually visit this site when they have a free chance to bash me. Funny how people you and I considered friends continue to support me as a person even if they don’t support the wrong actions I have done before. You’ve got other friends that were banned for this, I assume they’ve got the same kinds of messages waiting for them.
actually…. i doubt it
@Galm,
We could care less what people think about the situation we’re approving every comment that we receive whether its an opinion we share or not.
There was one special case where we felt we needed to address the situation, but honestly its just funny now at how serious the guy was.
@Fusionx,
‘kay, I have to ask, was this directed at me or that other guy, Starcade?
Just FYI, whether I’m blocked from making comments or not, let me just say I stand by every single word I said up above. Now there are, in actual fact, many other people that also agree with my views and no, those aren’t specifically Starcade or Seibar. There was a discussion in the Vana’diel Profiles Vent server, in the private/passworded area, all of us agreeing about this whole situation and how PFA/the community has conducted themselves in this. Not only that, but I’ve also had a fair few conversations with a number of people over Skype. These people will all remain nameless, for I will not spoil their credibility in the community. Needless to say, there has been a serious mistake made on PFA’s part and basically, the article really should’ve been written by someone else. Not Chinchilla, due to her actually being involved in it.
Also, so much for -wanting- to be a Premier site and all the support you give to SE. That’s now gone to total hatred. Thanks for turning your backs, guys. Oh, and by guys, I mean Chinchilla and Fusionx. People I once respected.
@Xiath, My account ( Devil ) got banned 2 years ago ( long story :/ )
but it still has the LM-17 error.. i cald center end they said it’s a perma ban.
@Serious?, you miss the point dude, the bannings were unbalanced some people totally got off the hook for doing more with the exploit than others. SE likes to claim that they want a fair and balanced game and yet there is no balance period in the bannings, it was like they stuck all the names in a hat pulled 500 out of 1000 names and said those people were permabanned. Eff talking about business practices or whether or not the people involved in the bannings were right or wrong, this all has to do with SE’s assumptions on what they thought the people they were banning actually did without warning, without anything other than what they had seen in their logs. There’s a whole lot more to this than SE thinks.
And just to say I respect everyone’s opinions here. I’m not going to be the judge of the way anyone thinks because we’re all different. I just wish we could all be human, move on with our days and stop being so ugly to each other. Please for the sake of the community and you’re sanity grow the fuck up guys, this goes for people on BOTH sides of the fence.
@Hileict,
Firstly you’re more than welcome to have any views and opinions on this matter. We won’t judge you simply for expressing your views. However some people are being a bit extreme when doing so.
Also, no one cares you have access to a password area on a vent server. I don’t feel we made any mistakes with the article. Chin was the one that wanted to write it and I felt she would have the best views. Sure there may be some bias involved but i found it easy to move past. If i had written the article i would have said many of the same things she did. I personally felt the bannings were extreme and that SE didn’t offer enough information about the to the community which left many people confused.
Sure i’d be interested in being a premier site. However if we have to suck up to SE and agree on everything they do then no thanks. PFA is a news site. we’re here to inform the players of whats going on not just with posts from POL but also with what the community is talking about. And the community was talking about the bannings and there are several different points of view. I’m not quite sure how we turned our backs on the community we did the same thing we’ve been doing.
@Liseth, Jesus, stop with the “Fairness” argument, if you got banned you got unlucky, if you didn’t, you got lucky. Going through countless amounts of code to try to find the dupers is plenty difficult as it is, just because they can’t get everyone doesn’t mean they can’t get a few.
Note: SE can assume whatever the hell they want, we are playing on their property and if they want us off of it, they can say so. Stop acting as if SE owes us, or you, anything.
“SE wants a fair and balanced game,” and a fair and balanced game doesn’t involve the consumer exploiting it.
“stuck all the names in a hat pulled 500 out of 1000 names and said those people were permabanned.” What on earth do you know about how they came across the conclusions they did. You are assuming way to much.
We know nothing about how they came to the conclusions they did. That’s one of the problems with this.
The worst part as you said, SE can do whatever they want. They don’t owe us any explanation. However it would make them look a little better if they’d just tell people how they decided who got LM11 over LM17 and why some people avoided the mess altogether.
@Serious?, what fairness argument? I don’t give a shit about whether or not any of it was fair. They did what they did, fact of the matter is SE is not living up to their own fucking philosophies by not banning everyone outright. Also like I mentioned like 9000 replies ago, there isn’t any reason why they shouldn’t be able to tell us in plain english whether or not we were banned outright. I would’ve went along my merry little way had I have known the truth right away instead of given some ambiguous code that could STILL mean anything.
@Starcade,
na {Galka noise} that
you can get the Uh-de-up out if you dont like chin
@Ryx, i must dis agrea with you, while i think se was a bit shall we say crazy in how they banned players they wont go back no matter how menny players prtest they cant bc as i have said be for it sets a dangeris standerd. next time SE banns ppl for lajit coses they will just baned to gaver and protest next from what i am seaing here it seams like most of the baned platyers say we dazerved a slap on the rist or a temp ban…maybe thats why you are were baned becuse se figerd you would just exspec a temp if your got cot but if you want to protest do so and good luck and i mean that i realy wish you all good luckdont like sumthing SE does get 5000 players to protest it
@Fusionx, If you got LM11 or LM17, your a little cheater, you don’t deserve an explanation, hows that not make sense?
@Fusionx, your cunpleately rite in regards toPFA’s rol in this so keep it goin
@katiekat shiva,
I have to disagree with you there. I think its proper to be able to voice your opinion if you believe something was done unfairly and unjustly. Its everyone’s right to stand up and say – hey, this was unfair. The company doesn’t have to listen every single time. The company in question can chose to losten to its customers or not, every single time. You can never force them to change policy, you can only voice, in numbers, your opinion.
I didn’t say it didn’t make sense. And i already stated above SE doesn’t owe us an explanation. It would be a good show of character however if they came forward to help confused players and explain the difference in warnings, suspensions and bannings and say if you did ____ you got a warning if you did ____ you got temp banned etc.
I’d be willing to bet every form you fill out will give an auto-response.
@Serious?,
“The fact that you can’t bot or dup, is why your complaining. Most of you would in a heart beat, and the “I’m on PS2, or Xbox” comment is bologna. ”
I’ve been playing since pc release, on pc. I could use any cheat or bot that was made in the past, but I never did. I tried fish botting back in the day and felt dirty even doing that for a day. I used windower until SE made their own, since alt-tabbing used to nuke my ff. Since then I’ve used the legal windower – sure it sucks, but I won’t get banned at least.
Don’t assume all the non-cheaters are PS2 users, most PC users play perfectly legal every day.
And ya, I GM call people. Little help that does, the real ticket is sending in notes to the Special Task Force.
@Amara ~ Garuda,
550 people gone isn’t a speck on the endgame. Theres still 60+ people at aspid, 90ish at faf, and 3 ls’s waiting on khim and cerb at crazy earlly times in the morning.
The fact that people who help our community got banned too makes no difference. If these people were so expierenced and knowledgable then they should have known damn well that 3 items dropping to 3 glitched loot pools was illegal. If it was legal, all 3 would be in the -same- pool, not 3 glitched pools among 3 parties formed.
@Amara ~ Garuda, “What’s going to happen to the game when those of us veterans* that are still here decide it’s time for us to leave as well… ”
1) Oh that’s right I forgot, there have ALWAYS been veterans, without them whatever shall we do?
2) http://www.____.com /done, not newbies anymore.
“So many good players and people have been removed from our servers, people that have developed our knowledge of ingame mechanics, strategies and play styles.”
1) What is your definition of a good player? I assume your referring to those with a King Body, more then a few salvages, all access, lots of gil, bla bla bla….
2) What made them good in the first place? Best way to get good at FFXI is to cut every possible corner, whore a linkshell, and beg and plead for gear. However, don’t get me wrong, you can do it the fair way by being a good person, but those are far and few between & it takes so much longer.
I learned everything there is to know about FFXI by having a few good friends, lots of reading, and lots of experience. The people in the ring-o-duping, are not needed for anything. FFXI will persist regardless.
“people that have developed our knowledge of ingame mechanics, strategies and play styles.”
JP will always figure that stuff out for us anyways.
No one can say how innocent any other players was. Most players are not going to admitt what other 3rd party devices they are using or other actions against the TOS they committed. To say it was not consistent banning or warning I find hard to believe. If only using my own server as a refrence, The majority banned were all from the same LS’s. Most were sackholders or a leader. Their LS’s themselves are known for using bots. These shells not only used this glitch but sold the duped gear for millions per item. And yes they sold salvage gear by having people enter an lot drops after paying their fees. You enter log out log onto a mule in your mog wait for a tell then log back to your main to lot the piece once you paid fee. After receiving piece you then leave area. So these LS’s knew what they were doing an even if you didn’t benefit from the drop the LS made millions. The LS’s also advertised that they were selling these drops and even have the rules and procedures to buy the gear right on their LS web sites.
People look at who was banned on their servers and see a pattern. Those banned on my server can not say they were not involved in other activites. The LS’s they are part of alone make them guilty of several TOS. The posts on their own websites promote and admitt they were breaking rules.
Just because you only used the glitch once or only got 1 item doesn’t take away from other actions being done. I am sure when your character was found to be involved SE then looked into more of your history. Dat mods, bots, 3rd party devices, windower LS activity and reports against them, other bannings you had, the list can go on. Even if you think “well everyone uses windower”, everyone wasn’t also caught using the glitch. They may have added these things up to determine who got temp, who got perm, and who got a letter. That windower may have moved you from 1 infraction to 2. Just because all of it was found at 1 time doesn’t change that it’s 2 things against the TOS.
As for those saying we lost the only players who could kill HNM’s or guide us through endgame…the only thing those shells had was an advatage because of bots that kept other shells from getting claim. We didn’t lose anything except a bunch of cheaters and we gained the chance to have some enjoyment back in endgame.
As for Chin I’m sorry you got caught up in all this but you knew it was wrong. Even in RL not everyone receives the same punishment for the same crime every case is different and delt with individualy.
@Liseth, They don’t have to ban everyone. THEY DON’T HAVE TO BAN EVERYONE.
@Fusionx, Warning, Temp Ban, or Ban, they all are in regards to some form of cheating. If you cheat you MIGHT get banned. They don’t need to define for us who/what/where/why.
“Confused Players” People who play the game the way it’s to be played aren’t confused.
“if you did ____ you compromise your account.”
IF YOU DID ____ YOU COMPROMISED YOUR OWN ACCOUNT.
Whats it matter how it’s compromised. The only valid reasons for knowing what you want to know are…
1) You care way to much about FFXI, and feel as though your some kinda politician who matters.
2) You want to know just how far you can cheat, before you gonna get the banhammer.
Don’t do ___ and you have nothing to worry about.
@Keyln – Phoenix, Very very very well put, good job.
@…anon.., I like to see different verisons of this same idea over and over, good job, honestly. I’m not the best with words so sometimes my ideas are alittle misunderstood, but you helped hit it.
Note: SE can’t tell if you bot, or use windower. Unless your stupid about it…